Our Only Incorporation is the Body of Christ. Free Christians and Churches.
SWEDENBORG OR PAUL
TO MY OPINION AS A THINKER AND READER ,THE THEOLOGY OF SWEDENBORG ,IN COMPARISON WITH THE WELL APPROVED THROUGH AGES ,AND THE THE WHOLE CHRISTENDOM, THEOLOGY OF SAINT PAUL IS DEFINITELY THE TRUE THEOLOGY OF THE TRUE CHURCH,ANYTHING ELSE SHOULD BE CONSIDERED PHILOSOPHY.NOT GOING WITH EVEN CHRIST TEATCHINGS.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on -
YOU HAVE GONE ASTRAY BY A FALSE PROPHET,DELUDED BY EVIL SPIRITS ,SO AS HE LIES ON SAINT PAUL,AS JESUS WARNED US OF THOSE FALSE PROPHETS THAT WILL COME AFTER HIM,ITS UP TO YOU TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT BUT YOU HAVE TO COMPARE SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL THINGS,OR YOU CAN BE MISLED,IF WE SAY SPIRITUAL THINGS ARE MISLED AS SAINT PAUL MESSAGES,SO WHAT TO COMPARE WITH ,AND SO ITS THE BIGGEST VICTORY TO SATAN,AND HE MAKES YOU LOVE SWEDENBORG WITH HIS IDEAS OF MARRIAGE IN HEAVEN,AND MANY IMMAGINARY THINGS THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE BIBLE.GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL ,BUT TAKE CARE IF ANY ONE IGNORES ANY OF THE BIBLE HE MUST BE SUSPICIOUS.
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
The whole concept of redemption is destroyed through the philosophy of Swedenborg ,because once you deny the trinity ,so will be no need for reconciliation with the father ,and there must be another concept be found to replace the concept that the whole Christianity is built upon,this concept is the vague one of subjugation of hells,thus the devil so cleverly deviates the whole christianity ,through the wisdom of Swedenborg,that Saint Paul spoke about,the wisdom of the world.Simply to be surely convinced ,god would if he wants ,instead of appearing drained power by the evil forces ,at the same time just wanting to return balance to heaven and hell,and earth he is able to do it as the almighty god,but the story will all be different.I think you will not grasp my idea ,because you need a mind like Swedenborg to catch the meaning.The tempting of Jesus to the point of the cross to subjugate the hells,is a very strange concept,i doubt that you yourselves understand?
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
blind taking hand of a blind both will go astray,look Mathew20:28.
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
it seems you are bare now and know that you are a cult ,that believes things from your Swedenborg,not the bible,and you will be condemned for this in front of your redeemer Jesus Christ.Beware because i could be able earnestly to reveal to you the facts.God be with you.
-
Permalink Reply by Stephen Simons on -
I have been busy with my business and my church plant and am just now catching up on my messages. Wow, you are certainly a combative soul! I appreciate your concern for my soul and eternal life. I am equally concerned for your salvation and your relationship with Jesus who has indeed returned, and whom you deny, and even accuse of being a false prophet. Because it is not Emanuel Swedenborg who fulfilled and redefined the messages of scripture, it is Jesus Christ Himself who returned to correct and reform the believers throughout his body. If Emanuel Swedenborg had spoken on his own authority I would discard his theology because his answers are indeed at odds with many long held traditions of the church, but he is not speaking on his own authority, he is simply relating everything that Jesus told him.
I pray that you will continue to read and pray and that Jesus will open your mind to see the truth about His return. There are so many traditions of men that have replaced the words of God throughout so much of the history of the Christian church, and Jesus returned to, among other things, clarify His will, His purposes, His plans, and His priorities so that the false teachings of so many of the church fathers could be dispelled and replaced with the true gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ, the one and only God of heaven and earth.
Jesus said, "I and my father are one" and "He who has seen me, has seen the father" and upon rising from the dead He made the claim that "ALL power has been given to me" -- not some, not partial, not co-equal, but ALL power.
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
Any prophet that lead to discussions is not from God,you can see the great discussions going on now on Vassula Ryden ,and see by yourself the contradiction with the writings of Swedenborg,and tell me for God s sake,why to leave the bible and follow traditions of man,we will be torn between various writings and go astray away from the bible ,which is the word of God ,and deviating from it ,means deviating from the right faith,do you want me to be follower of Swedenborg,and not Jesus Christ?You need to read dear to be open on your brothers in humanity and see other problems of christianity,or at least be world wide preatcher of your religion ,as you call it the true christianity ,replacing the false one,How can t you see it a big horrible dilemma you are talking about,and always not answering the objections ,i tell you directly,you have rejected the redemption of Christ,don t you see this horrible maldirected way.how much you are blind by this suspicious Swedenborg.try to catch the big questions inside what i said ,or you are also deluded and will never find the truth in this way.Or may be God by his endless love is satisfied with these little number of Swedenborgians,to be his saved humans?
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
I read your reply 1st quickly ,then accurately,you are really deluded and strange to accuse me of denying Jesus ,i deny you dear with your Swedenborg ,and it seems right the one i read,that Swedenborg replaced Jesus by himself ,in claiming Jesus second coming,and if you compare Swed with Paul ,the one is claiming things without wittnesses at all ,the other,I mean Saint Paul there were wittnesses,and there were strong approvals of the great apparent change of direction ,that made him a man completely against Christianity,to a one that went the whole world then to tell the good news of salvation by the redemptive offering of Jesus,to reconciliate humans with god,and you have to know that i am a Coptic Christian ,and the Coptic church is so near to Swed ,because they believe in the importance of charity ,beside faith,but i told myself as they consider themselves the true Church also ,will god consider the other Christians wrong ,and save only the Copts?
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
And simply to be convinced,Jesus said that a kingdom that is divided upon itself will be destroyed or perish ,how can god be that changeable ,after 1700 years of certain faith ,he changes it completely,he himself said i have come to complete not to change,but what Swed claims is complete change of the church beliefs.open your mind dear please to understand that What Swedenborg wrote are visions ,and he put a religion on it through his philosophy that he is convinced of ,not out of church beliefs,also that Jesus said the doors of hell can t overcome it.Even Lauther did not change drastically the religion ,but concluded from the deep meanings that Saint Paul mentioned a deviation that may be true,but as to my understanding he could not catch the deep meaning in Paul ,that doing good works separate from faith is not enough for salvation ,but good works follows faith,through the grace of God that we earned through Christ,what a great true faith.and another contradiction aginst the true beliefs of the church of God ,what Swedenborg claims even contradicting himself ,that any one even non christian,non baptised can enter heaven if he is kind and good,and again this is against the teachings of Jesus himself,he said i am the way ,the truth ,and the life,can one go to heaven without the way,without the truth,and more even without the giver of life.what is more apparent than this?Now again the changes that drastically remove the previous faith ,that can never be God s attitude are,Resurrection,redemption,marriage in heaven,heaven open to kind non believers,no angels before the human race,no trinity,no no no....,so its completely new religion satisfying the desires of humans and fitting well with this ,non spiritual at all.and not a true christianity ,but Swedenborgianism religion.Or the religion of the late Proffesor Swedenborg.
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
dear i continue read and pray ,but you seem never read nor pray.Because your replies are irrelevant to what i tell you,i hope you try to understand instead of praying for immaginary things.I am despaired of your clouded mind ,How you see yourselves right and the whole world wrong and ignorant?come on either you say something of meaning or forget about,instead of turning a discussion on so valuable things into a quarrel of nonsense.I will just leave this for any one who is open minded to think.
-
Permalink Reply by Stephen Simons on
-
Makram,
As you yourself note, I do not think that you read my responses carefully before replying. And you continue to accuse me of beliefs that are not what I describe and certainly not what I believe. You keep coming back to your own false assertions and seem dedicated to adhering to your own misunderstanding of what Emanuel Swedenborg wrote, instead of coming to understand what Jesus taught him. As for instance, I have explained before and shown you from scripture that only Christians are in heaven. And yet you continue to claim that Swedenborg says that anyone, even non-Christians, are in heaven. This simply is not true, because Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life.
Unless you are willing to read, and consider, and remember what I have written. And read and consider what Emanuel Swedenborg wrote on its own merits without including what others have written about him. And read and consider the gospels and epistles without the traditions of the church added to them we cannot continue this conversation. You seem dedicated to your own blindness and misinterpretation of not just my words, but also the words of Emanuel Swedenborg, the words of the apostle Paul, and even the words of Christ Himself. Beware, you are making the word of God of no effect by your traditions. Consider this, the accusations that you direct at Swedenborg, you are properly directing at Christ Himself, because Swedenborg did not speak for himself, or from his own wisdom, but simply related everything that Christ gave to him to write. Apparently you have no great faith in the Holy Spirit or the possibility of divine revelation, and you suffer as the scribes and pharisees did at the first coming of Christ to see how the teachings of Christ align with the traditions of the church. The fact is, if the traditions of the church were still in line with the word of God, Christ would not have had to come either the first time or the second time. He came to put believers back on the right path, to clarify, and give direction to the teaching of the church, and to explain many of the things that people had misunderstood about his teaching at his first coming.
Take for instance your assertion that the Bible claims that there is no marriage in heaven. On the contrary, the Bible asserts that what God has put together no man can separate because a man and wife are no longer two, but one flesh and this from the very creation of the world. When the Sadducees challenged Jesus about marriage in the resurrection, you have to know that the Sadducees don't believe there is a resurrection. The question isn't actually about marriage, its about the afterlife. The inclusion of the scenario with one woman and many men is simply added to make Jesus look like a fool. However, He brushes aside their scenario so that He can address their primary issue, which is the fact that all people rise from the grave. And the way he brushes it aside is to explain that marriage as they know it, the legal contract of a man with a woman or many women that can be dispersed at will by the man for no cause whatever, this legal construct does not exist in the resurrection because he explains that they are then like the angels of God. Jesus is challenging their traditions about marriage, Jesus is establishing that polygamy and polyandry are to be abolished in the Christian church. He is reaffirming His own teaching on marriage that it is from the creation of the world that one man and one woman are joined in a permanent covenant that is established by God and not by man and that cannot be dispelled except for sexual immorality and unfaithfulness.
There is so much more, but I am not interested in fighting with you. I am not interested in continuing to read your emotional outbursts. However, if you wish to have a calm and reasoned conversation based on the facts, I will continue to respond as I have the chance.
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
dear ,you are accusing me still of what you have to tell yourself,anyway,its the problem not with me but with Christ and his Church ,and the whole world,i am discussing all this ,not for the sake of myself ,i am in honest and good hands of the Christ,but its your problem and you are disoriented of it,so better to reconsider your faith ,not mine .And you even tell me second hand ideas i know very well of your response on marriage ,as if it is learned by heart .But still i tell you you are biased twards a human not god at all,to claim he has come in the name of Christ as a second coming ,i know through his writings.Face the traditional church and the men of the church ,not me ,because as Kant said its the ideas of a fool,i mean the church men says the same.And its not that you are not interested in fighting with me ,you are fixed minded and we will never reach any thing in this way,added to you began to speak as superior ,and this is wrong.simply as for me if i would take Swedenborg blindly i would be so happy,but comparing as you never immagine so earnestly ,i found many theological mistakes against the church ,and i gave you an example of Vassula Ryden but you have no time to go deeper than you are,i find really discussion with you fruitless and non religious.And told you i am not deleting all i wrote for others to evaluate,as i know you are busy enough.
-
Permalink Reply by Makram Max Abdelmalek Youssef on
-
I ask you directly ,do you believe in the whole new testament as always the church knew?
© 2012 Created by Stephen Simons.
